“The rifts have become deep,” says the Juso leader – Linnemann warns of “blackmail potential”

More than 35 percent of Germans believe that a grand coalition is the best solution after the federal election. But it was also clear that the path to an alliance between the CDU/CSU and the SPD and thus to a new government would be difficult. Just how difficult was shown by Markus Lanz's ZDF program , in which CDU General Secretary Carsten Linnemann (47) and Juso leader Philipp Türmer (29) were guests.

"The rifts in this election campaign have become damn deep," said Türmer when asked to describe the relationship between the coalition partners from his point of view and made it clear: "The talks are not a sure-fire success."

When Linnemann was asked to describe the situation from his point of view, he said: "The SPD is of course in a very strong position now." "You could also say there is a certain potential for blackmail," moderator Lanz interrupted.

"Yes, you could say that. But I think we should stop using such words, because this is not about blackmail, but rather it is the last exit. The next step is Austria," Linnemann replied.

The head of the Juso was particularly bothered by the way Friedrich Merz spoke about his political opponent during the election campaign. The head of the CDU had spoken of the demonstrators who had gathered in front of the Konrad Adenauer House after the controversial vote on migration policy in the Bundestag, among other places, as "green and left-wing idiots". Türmer not only demanded an apology for this, but also that there had been "collaboration with the AfD".

"With this cooperation, something in the democratic culture in this country has broken down - and we now need a signal that this is not okay," Türmer continued. "I am waiting for this clarification. Friedrich Merz must make it clear to himself where he stands."

“You want an apology, otherwise you won’t negotiate?” asked Lanz, speaking of blackmail.

"This is no longer about blackmail. How are we supposed to know that the Union is not blackmailing us and saying: In case of doubt, we will look for majorities, as we did here with the AfD. That is a question that needs to be clarified," said Türmer.

Michael Bröcker, editor-in-chief of "Table.Media", disagreed. He considered the "left-wing nutters" statement to be unproblematic, especially since the Union leader has clearly distanced himself from right-wing extremists on several occasions. However, he clearly criticizes the asylum vote: "What Merz did was wrong in terms of strategy and content." In addition, there have already been SPD speeches that have gone too far. Apart from that, Merz has had to listen to SPD politicians say that his proposal in the Bundestag had opened "the gates to hell," added journalist Anne Hähnig from "Zeit."

In addition to mutual criticism of the tone of the debate, there was also disagreement about the content of the most important election campaign issues for Germans. First and foremost, this was about migration policy. Türmer in particular found it difficult to name specific points that the SPD will take into negotiations with the Union - or what should be changed specifically.

"The individual right to asylum must be protected," said Türmer after repeated questions. And he argued that asylum seekers should be allowed to work more quickly than before. "So no rejection at the border," Lanz asked. "No blanket rejections at the border," Türmer stated.

"The individual right to asylum will remain, I can tell you now," said CDU General Secretary Linnemann. He was more concerned with the fundamental problem that needed to be addressed: the system being overwhelmed.

"Yes, well, there is also the Geneva Refugee Convention. We all know how much is going wrong with asylum policy in Europe at the moment," said Türmer. There needs to be a fair distribution of refugees among the European states.

"That's not realistic, we've done that before, it won't work," said Linnemann. The borders work "like Swiss cheese," only "with bigger holes." Türmer could not say what the solution would be instead.

When it comes to the citizen's allowance, Türmer basically demanded that everything stay as it was: "The citizen's allowance was a blatant achievement - but the CDU wants to switch the mediation process in work back on," said Türmer.

"If someone can work but takes advantage of the welfare state, then it is precisely the SPD workers of the past who are now voting for the AfD," Linnemann countered. Even the SPD labor minister Hubertus Heil has called for total objectors to be sanctioned 100 percent.

However, it was clear that the two sides are not that far apart on the issue of the minimum wage. The SPD is demanding 15 euros, while CDU politician Linnemann would leave that to the minimum wage commission.

Both party representatives agreed that the challenges facing Germany are growing, particularly as a result of US President Donald Trump's second term in office. However, a joint approach, especially on the debt brake, seems a long way off.

"I have strong emotions when it comes to the debt brake. It's worse than some people's peanut allergies," said Türmer. He had always suspected that the "CDU's hard position on the debt brake translates to: "Yes, we know. We actually need to spend more money, but please not here."

This impression has become more solid in recent days. "My position on the debt brake is: destroy what destroys you! So everything we can change about it, undermine it, abolish it. Making everything better would be a relief for this country." One could also write "debt brake" on the collapsed bridge in Dresden, for example, because there is such a large investment backlog.

Carsten Linnemann, however, saw things differently: "I will fight to keep it. In my opinion." When it was pointed out that the special fund was already a way of circumventing the regulation, the CDU leader said: "These are two different things," because the special fund is earmarked for a specific purpose. This is important because: "Experience shows that if the debt can be incurred, there is no stopping it. Politicians always have ideas about how to spend the money."

Friedrich Merz had announced that he wanted to form a government by Easter. However, journalist Hähnig seemed pessimistic about the debate: "What we are currently experiencing here is really very interesting, because one already has the impression that it will be really difficult for your two parties to come together."